Transcript
Dale Kirby: Everyone that talks about biosecurity it's thought about of just on your own piece of land. That's not to say that people don't think outside their own boundary fence, but it's just recognizing that you're not alone in that situation because pests and weeds can feel like they're a pretty overwhelming task. You're not the only person that's impacted by it. So there's a shared load out there.
Edgars Greste: Good Day listeners. This is The Pastoral Poddy, proudly brought to you by the folks at Western Local Land Services. I'm your host, Edgar Greste. Taking the mic back from Kieran Smith, who's done a wonderful job hosting the Going Ahead with Goats series in this Pastoral Poddy.
If you're new to this show and dunno what I'm talking about, I thoroughly recommend you look back through the feed and listen to Kieran's chats with producers and scientists about goats in the Rangelands. This series, we are still in the rangelands, but talking about neighbours in a good way. You see, weed and pest management is a big issue.
In fact, over 70% of New South Wales threatened species and endangered ecological communities are impacted by invasive species. And as the saying goes, no farm is an island. So tackling these challenges across fence lines together is the key to not only building momentum, but also not feeling alone. In this episode, we'll talk to Dale Kirby from the New South Wales Government's Good Neighbours Program, and hear from Matt Kennedy at Western Local Land Services about some prickly projects he's been involved with. And the success you can have when you work together with your neighbour.
Welcome Dale.
Take us back to the beginning. What was the origin story here of the Good Neighbours Program?
Dale Kirby: The Good Neighbours Program started off as a $10 million election commitment from the New South Wales Government. And it was really about trying to deal with that challenge of how do you actually get neighbours to work better between public land managers?
And that's all of the government land managers and private land managers. So yeah, it was basically kicked off to try and improve the pest and weed outcomes at that level.
And. We had four really key topics that we were trying to address with that. One was that increased engagement and collaboration, like getting neighbours to work together.
We had a second one about increasing the capability of those land managers because to meet your biosecurity duty to manage pests and weeds, you need to know how to do that as best you possibly can. No one's really got a lot of time, so we try and make that as efficient as possible.
The third one was to celebrate the examples of where cross tenure or across boundary actually works well. So we've got a whole range of on-ground projects and that'll talk more about those as we go through this project. And then the fourth one was about improving transparency and data transparency.
It's really easy for people to say, oh, my neighbor's not doing anything if they don't know what their neighbor's doing. So actually improving that transparency makes it much easier for people to go, hey, I can tell that my neighbour's doing something. I'm doing something. We're not alone in this, and we're really trying to move forward with it. So that's where good neighbours came from.
Edgars Greste: Matt, can you, turn this into real life for us. you’re our man on the ground. What's an example of a project that, that you've been involved with?
Matt Kennedy: So in regards to a project that we have in Tibooburra, which is a boxing glove project. Boxing glove, it's an absolutely terrible cactus that introduced years ago, and up there it's a major issue in an area between both the national parks and one of the local landholders.
And that was identified by the Local Land Services officer up there. And we brought all of those guys together to say, okay, let's have a coordinated approach. How can we get on top of this, on both sides of the fence? National Parks were absolutely keen as mustard to see this problem sorted, as was the landholder.
So there was a level of collaboration there already between National Parks and LLS and even the landholder I think. But what we were able to do was to go in and strengthen that which was really cool. And some of the results that we got from those projects with that collaboration was just amazing.
Relationship is the key. If you can build relationship, which is best done if you're able to be face to face, because that's how most people like to operate where they can actually see you and shake your hand.
Dale Kirby: One of the things that Matt has done incredibly well is actually go out and, meet with landholders and actually hear their challenges and allow that space for genuine conversation. And I think that's the thing that really builds this project up is having staff on ground to actually go and talk to people, resolve those issues, and make a commitment to go forward.
Edgars Greste: Matt, can you share any sort of insights or examples of some of the projects you've worked on where there have been some challenges? Just to paint the picture of what neighbours are faced with on the ground, whether it's distance or environment or that kind of thing.
Matt Kennedy: What you'll find is that it's all of those things. So especially out in the western areas, some of the areas that we're talking about are huge masses of land that they're having to deal with and the environmental aspects play into that as well.
There are best times to be able to, for instance, spray a cactus or to be able to have the biological control that coil put in place for them. And then there are times where it's just not suitable. And that coordination it's one thing to get one neighbor to do it. And if they do all of the work, but the person beside them doesn't do anything or does very little, then the problem that you've got is that it'll just reinfest the one that's spent all of their time trying to get stuff done on the ground. So what we are trying to do is we're trying to get as many people involved so that we can get that wider impact so that the effort that's been put in by one person is duplicated right across the board.
And I suppose part of what we are trying to do is we are trying to make sure that public land managers are part of that solution as well, so that if private landholders are doing things, we're trying to coordinate and help that communication open up so that the public land managers are able to have an impact on where they are as to do their biosecurity duty as well.
Dale Kirby: We've all been in that scenario where we've decided to do a job and thought, right, we're the only person doing that job. And you ring to try and get a contractor to do some work, and they're like, they're three weeks away. So you book them in. And, and you get that job done.
And what we've seen is, when we step in to say, let's take the blinkers off a little bit and look at how what you do on your land actually contributes to what everyone else does, and we share that information, all of a sudden the contractor that was three weeks away for you is was working on next doors and you didn't even know that that was happening. Like let's try and actually bring them together. And I think we've seen a lot of examples of that, across this. And Matt, you've got examples of that in Western where working together is actually makes it that much more effective.
Matt Kennedy: It's such a key thing for a true success of anything. You've gotta collaborate.
Edgars, one of the questions that I've been hit with though, that I just wanna make sure that we are clear on it was I've had a landholder say to me, oh, so you, can you help me with my neighbor? We don't get on. And it's kinda yeah no. We are not that crazy. We are just working between the public managed lands and neighbours. So that's kinda like our key area. We are happy to, if we're trying to bring a bigger, a bigger impact in, and they're involved in what we're doing we'll try and help in that area, but we are not counselors, so we're not there to try and make things right between private landholders just so we don't start getting an influx of phone calls. Yeah.
Dale Kirby: Where it comes to pests and weeds and actually doing a collective effort in there. Like we're more than happy to help in that space. But I think, uh, there's sometimes if there's two neighbours that really can't get along, there's probably bigger things at play for that.
Matt Kennedy: And this is an emotive thing as well, like when you're talking about pest animals that can be costing somebody hundreds of thousands of dollars on the bottom line of their production, it can become a very emotive thing. It can be a very passionate thing. And I suppose people can be looking over the fence and going well, I'm doing everything and they're doing nothing. And that may not be the case. That may not be the actual situation.
Edgars Greste: The Good Neighbours Program is about strengthening communication between both public and private land managers about on ground work that's happening or needs to be done. And for some, just knowing that they're not alone can make a huge difference.
Matt Kennedy: With one of the last people actually that I've spoken to only very recently where I went and visited them and sat down in their kitchen and we had a cuppa. And they described the relief. That they felt when they realized that they weren't gonna have to try and deal with this alone.
And the impact on them mentally to, to think that this thing that was up until that point, overwhelming was now something that that they weren't walking that journey by themselves. They had the government, believe it or not, who actually cared. Because we do care and we wanna see the best for all those land managers or farmers that are working the land, and they can really feel isolated and sometimes the problem can seem insurmountable. And what it takes is it takes somebody to get alongside them and to go, righto, we are here to help.
Let's make a plan. And while Good Neighbours, we are able to help with some of the funding and some of the coordination in some places and some instances. We obviously can't do that with every single problem that is out there. But what we can do is we can encourage people and point them in the right direction.
And that's where Local Land Services, that's why we are here. We are here to try and help and to try and advise and direct and to be there I suppose for the people that are on the ground and are dealing with this.
Dale Kirby: when we first started this. project, one of the things that we looked at were what were the barriers to people being involved? And, and we, we touched on those barriers about people not having enough time or not knowing each other, or the fact that things weren't as coordinated as they could be.
And by addressing some of those barriers, like the behavioral insights work that we've done to that, trust takes time. But once you allow that space for people to build trust between each other, you get that enduring impact after, like, after our programs stepped out. I think that's one of the key things for us is helping people build those relationships between their neighbours is, what will lead to the, the longer-term benefits out of this.
Matt Kennedy: One of the things that we've noticed is if we could all just communicate just that little bit better. With one another and with the wider group everybody's different. We have different world views in how we see what's in front of us and how we deal with the world.
For example, the different aspects that we see in people are things like the environmentally minded steward, they feel uncomfortable about lethal control or chemical methods, for instance.
The practical producer. So somebody that not sure about how much the impact the pests might have on them financially. But they value productivity and efficiency and proven results, they like the figures, they like to see what's happening in that space.
You've got those that are independent, so they're a traditionalist in how they approach what it is that they do. They've got generations of knowledge that have come down to them and that they see that this is how we've always done it.
So how we might approach them might be different to how we would approach that environmentalist. The community minded collaborator, so somebody who specifically values community and wellbeing that shared responsibility strong local relationships and solutions that benefit like everybody not just an individual approach but that, that wider community minded collaborator.
The unaware landholder, we come across this especially with absentee landholders. They just don't realise, the impact that they can have on their neighbours.
They're absent. They have a farm or land that they might visit twice a year for whether to go camping or maybe hunting or whatever it might be, maybe to go for a fish. They value a low maintenance, simple lifestyle, and, they have land more for enjoyment than actual income.
So how do we approach those guys? And then you've got, the obstinate landholders. They know that the pests are there, they know that this is an issue, but it's kinda, I'm not gonna do, you can't make me do anything. I'm not gonna do anything. And, and they'll just dig their heels in and won't listen to anybody, and you get all of these in life, don't you? This isn't just a landholder thing. This is everybody, we all fall into some type of category in regards to our worldview. Like not saying that somebody's right or wrong or anything but we have to be able to firstly recognize that people are different and they approach things differently. And secondly we need to be equipped to speak into their worldview.
Dale Kirby: Those behavioral insights are really valuable. At giving as government and people in the community, a really good toolkit to be able to improve the way that they work together.
Edgars Greste: We'll drop a link in the show notes to some of these insights that people can have a read through and that hopefully might help them in their journey as well.
Matt Kennedy: I suppose comes to that relationship thing, doesn't it, that we were talking about earlier, the ability to build relationship means that you can understand better the person that you're actually speaking with and you're wanting to coordinate with. So just the importance of that connection that, you know, sitting across a table from one another over a cup of tea.
Edgars Greste: As you've said previously, people want to work together when they've got a common goal, those boundaries drop away and we see the similarities in ourselves and not the differences. How do you think the Good Neighbours Program is contributing to how we think about biosecurity here in New South Wales?
Dale Kirby: I think one of the things that we've seen is that there's been existing funding out there for biosecurity work and everyone that talks about biosecurity it's thought about of just on your own piece of land. What we've seen out of the program is that taking more of a landscape view and recognising that, you're not the only person to face the impacts of a biosecurity issue. If I'm dealing with it, surely someone else is dealing with it as well in that same area. Whether that's a weed or a pest. You're not the only person that's impacted by it. So there's a shared load out there.
Matt Kennedy: It’s been a breaking down of silos hasn't it, that we've really been working on.
Dale Kirby: I think so. And look, that's not to say that people don't think outside their own boundary fence, but it's just recognising that you're not alone in that situation of trying to deal with something, because pests and weeds can feel like they're a pretty overwhelming task.
I mean, we can't wipe out every issue across New South Wales that's well outside the scope of what we can do.
But what we can do is help people get it down to a level that. It's manageable. It's like stress can go through the roof and it's unmanageable where we can help lower that stress level or lower that level back to it's okay, that's within my control. This is achievable. That's really, I think what we're trying to change that messaging around is that working towards this is achievable.
And when everyone starts looking at that about how, them reducing the biosecurity challenges on their own land, helps their neighbours. All of a sudden we start to build this momentum that we're not just doing it on our own and we're taking a broader view of it.
So I think that's been some of the change that we've seen in that, about how we talk about biosecurity, certainly through this program.
Matt Kennedy: There's also an acknowledgement, isn't there? That we are not perfect. We are trying to achieve things and we are working towards something better and greater, but I don't think that anyone would say, oh, we've nailed it. We are all working towards a common goal.
Dale Kirby: Our program is to try and get public land managers and private land managers working together across their borders. There's so much work going on in biosecurity already. We're certainly not coming in to, to say that we're being able to fix all of those problems.
Our area is between public and private land. But I think one of the great things about that is we're open to hearing about what other programs are going on and connecting people together to go, what you may need to know about this program or that program and work in that referral capacity to actually bring people together means thatAll the great work that's going on outside of what our program does, gets a voice and everyone gets to know hey, we can do this for an environmental benefit, for an agricultural benefit, and for a community benefit at the same time.
Edgars Greste: If someone's listening to this and I guess they, are at some, in some way dealing with, a pest or a weed issue and they perhaps. They either need advice on how to deal with it or more so you know who to speak to, to connect the dots with their neighbours.
What's the call to action?
Matt Kennedy: So the first point of call would be your LLS Officer, give them a call. This is their bread and butter being able to help with this or deal with this or point people in the right direction. And if they don't know, they'll find out.
Dale Kirby: Yeah. Just getting contact with a Local Land Services staff member, come and actually have that conversation. Because I think that's really the key thing. And look where it is that you might be bordering with a piece of public land if it's National Parks or it's Forestry, have a conversation with those people. Like you'll find a lot of the details for the email addresses for a lot of the contact points for National Parks and Forestry.
They're on our website, so you can check out our website, but in most cases, going and have a conversation with someone that you've probably seen down the street or your kids play sport together. You'll find, have a conversation with someone from LLS. Because there's a lot of us. And yeah that's the job. We're there to try and help.
Matt Kennedy: And I suppose that's the beauty of LLS. I've only been with LLS for about 12 months and one of the things that have impressed me, to see the desire, the real desire, to help in their local communities and local settings. And they care. They really do.
Edgars Greste: Beautiful. What a touching note to finish on. Thank you both for joining me.
Matt Kennedy: Thank you.
Dale Kirby: Yeah, thanks.
Thoroughly enjoyed it.
Edgars Greste: Thanks for tuning in to this four-part Good Neighbors podcast series. Thanks to both our guests for their time and insights. If you want to find out more about the Good Neighbors Program, the behavioral insights research that they did, and even get some advice from a contact at Local Land Services about weed or pest management, we'll put some links in the show notes. In episode two, we'll talk to a scientist about weed management and nature's own landscape protector: weed biological control.
Dr Andrew McConnachie (NSW DPIRD): Australia has really proud history of weed biocontrol as a technology. And weed biocontrol just like the weeds doesn't respect boundaries. So it's one of the beauties. It operating 24 hours a day. Environmentally friendly and brings huge economic returns in some cases.
Edgars Greste: The Pastoral Poddy is proudly brought to you by Western Local Land Services and is supported through funding from New South Wales Government.
The episode was produced and mixed by the Grow Love Project. To catch all the other episodes, make sure to subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform.
And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and make sure to share it with a mate. It really makes a difference. Thanks for listening.
